Pages

Saturday, September 19, 2009

Music Function

Making music is one of our most basic instincts. There’s a reason we refer to music as the “universal language”; there has been no known human culture without music. Dancing and music came before agriculture, and possibly even before language. Bone flutes were found in Europe dating back 53,000 years ago.

Music has the ability to change the emotional and physical status of people, whether they are in bad moods, good moods, or sad moods. Music can also make people feel the suspense or excitement while watching a movie.

Music is part of the complex organism that is the human being and emotional expression is a very great part of that. I would prefer to say that music is a unique way of knowing the world, which goes along with other ways of knowing the world: visual, linguistic, phonetic, psychological, and mathematical.

Music is utterly entwined with notions of memory, of emotion, of identity, of relationship with place and time; of relationship with other human beings, with all living and inanimate objects, relations with the heavens, with the gods, people's ways of interpreting their worlds or their cosmologies in their own particular ways, very culturally specific ways.

Different types of music directly trigger different emotions. While happiness causes you to breathe faster, sadness causes a rise in blood pressure and temperature and a slower pulse. Faster music played in a major key caused the same physical reactions associated with happiness, and slower music played in a minor key resulted in those associated with sadness.

We may wonder what is the utility that music provides to humanity, and if there is one indeed. There are tree main theories that try to explain this mystery:
  1. Music evolved through sexual selection - Charles Darwin
  2. Music allowed for social cohesion on a larger scale than was available to more primitive primates, which create and enforce group ties through the physical process of mutual grooming - Robin Dumbar
  3. The enjoyment of music is just a “happy accident,” a by-product of mental mechanisms that evolved for other purposes - Steven Pinker
What is music for? How does it work? What can it teach us? We feel there must be answers to such questions, but they tend to be scattered throughout a wide range of different areas of study, from acoustics to music history, from psychology to composition. This makes the answers very difficult to find.

122 comments:

geek said...

Thank you for touching one of my favorite subjects.

Also, I would like to add that music also goes along with the anthropological perspective.

I am very big fan of Darwin, but I don't see music as a product of sexual selection. Maybe I should read more on the subject.

Another great post, Mariana!

Mariana Soffer said...

Geek
Nice to see you arround man, I am glad that you like whatthe post is about

I kind of knew, was almost sure, that music also goes antrophological perspecstive, mainly because It is so related to the culture.

Well I do not like darwin that much but I read his book and I respect him a lot.

Regarding the sex
it is much more likely that the process of evolution — in both natural selection and sexual selection as described by Charles Darwin — has molded our brains with particular strengths, weakness, and proclivities. Let's call these traits "human nature."
And I would infer that among is it is music, that can be usefull to attract humans of the oposit sex, and produce emotions in the other by playing a nice melody, among other things.

Hope my answer clarifies your concept a little bit.

Take care and send you love
M

Raul said...

Aren't there any other theories that produced that music did not disapear, evendough this benefit it is not that evident for us?

Mariana Soffer said...

Raul
Of course there are. Therea are many speculations about the reasons and theories about how it evolved and survied.
Here is one that justifies its existence:
Maybe music arised because we have acquired technologies to excite our pleasure circuitry. The pleasure circuitry has an adaptive explanation. The intelligence that manipulates the sound to bring about certain effects has an adaptive explanation. But you put them together and you get a species that in a biologist's sense, misapplies its intelligence to infiltrate motivational circuitry and short-circuit it. We have figured out how to amuse or titillate ourselves with artificial stimuli that don't themselves enhance fitness.

Lydia said...

This is one of the best writings I've read about music. I enjoyed it very much. I'm reminded of a college English class where we had to write an in-class essay answering the question: What Would You Die For? My essay was about music.

Shadow said...

i don't need to know why. music makes me smile, cry, takes me back in time, builds dreams and wishes, drives creativity, lifts me up, takes me down. music just is...

John said...

I think your point about titillating ourselves by stimulating pleasure circuits is a good one, it is almost like putting music in the same self defeating category as addictive drugs- anti survival. On the other hand, some drugs are also medicinal as well as pleasurable so perhaps music is in a similar way medicine- and that is certainly adaptive for survival.

I wouldn't agree with geek that music isn't a factor in sexual selection- look at what happens at a Tom Jones gig?

Do you think it is inevitable that we would make music as we live in a rhythmic universe?

And do you think that a sense of rhythm is an awareness of time that depends on memory, or is a temporal awareness of a different type?

Charles Gramlich said...

I tend to lean toward number 3, music as an emergent property of the way the brain is wired up for processing information. However, once music appreciation developed that way I can see it becoming involved in social selection pressures itself.

paulandrewrussell said...

Hi Mariana,

Is there a theory on the origins of music that includes the natural world?

I ask because I always imagined the first music was maybe man reacting to and imitating the sounds of nature, particularly birdsong. It could be that simple.

I agree that music triggers memories, as I think sound has special attributes we haven't come to fully understand.

I remember taking a media studies course, where the professor played two pieces of video reportage, one with no sound, the other with the full soundtrack. The effect on the viewers when the sound was added was incredible. The sound caused our emotions to be affected much more so than when there was none.

Music is wonderful. We can't see it or touch it yet it affects our feelings so profoundly.

I don't think it's any coincidence that when a human being, for whatever reason, goes unconscious, sound is the last thing they experience and when they become conscious, sound is the first noticeable sensation.

A very interesting post Mariana.

Have a good day.

Paul

geek said...

Aah yeah.. We also find that in birds. I forgot which species, but there's a kind of bird in which males "sing" to attract female birds. The one with the most beautiful melody gets to attract the female.

Jim Murdoch said...

Music, for me, is a mood enhancer. I have a huge collection of music (over 2000 albums), everything from Gregorian chant to punk rock with a heavy emphasis on modern classical and film music. There's not much I won't listen to although I have to say there's no rap or hip-hop in my collection. I don't need music. I don't feel incomplete without it. It is something to luxuriate in. It never gets old. Okay, the odd piece does – if I never heard 'Mull of Kintyre' ever again it would be too soon – but I can still listen to Beethoven's Fifth Symphony and get a real kick out of it and you have no idea how many times I've heard it; the same goes for Dark Side of the Moon although it's harder to write over.

What I do find of interest is the fact that our appreciation is not universal. By that I mean the western ear (and by that I mean the western mind) is uncomfortable with polyphony and microtonality whereas the eastern ear gets it.

Harlequin said...

thanks for this post-- music and dance are so interconnected for me as well.... one theorist I work with
( rudolf laban) has done marvelous work on embodied rhythm and has translated it into group experiences he called movement choirs... where word functioned as music as much as actual music did.
I also wonder about song, and its connection to music and dance. Lots of thoughts swirling (and dancing) thanks to your post...

Val said...

We brought it with us so we could remember our real origins and not lose ourselves in this world. Just my opinion. This is one of my favourite posts mariana, it made me smile today. hugs

Jm Benavidez Estoque said...

Another good post but...
I'm just wondering how Darwin could have stated that music evolved through SEXUAL selection?

SarahA said...

Oh yes I believe such. Really! That's one of the things I miss.
I take off my shoes and socks though, turn the music up full blast and dance; feeling the pulse flow through my being.
Of course, I have VERY understanding neighbours!

A Cuban In London said...

Brilliant post and one on which I would like to expand just a little bit. Music works on our amygdalae, a region in our brain that is responsible for emotions of fear and aggression. So, loving or loathing of certain music is innate to humans. That should explain why James Blunt was so popular a few years ago :-).

Greetings from London.

Uncle Tree said...

I don't understand explanation #1. #2 is more to my liking.

You say music produces emotions, and I'd like to add that it is through these various emotions we learn of moods we haven't experienced directly. So it is, and has always been a teaching aide.

The tribe is gathered together
in an all-inclusive wide circle. The chief gets the entire group prepared for battle by having the drummer pace the dancers through certain moves. They begin to automatically identify this particular beat with killing and death. If they come out on the winning side, a sort of opposite type music will be played in celebration, and so on and so forth.

It's been said that Bach prepares mature adults for death, and it is quite a different way of meeting one's fate in the end, as we pass away quietly and naturally.

Music brings the whole of the tribe into a certain mindset, and everything and everyone works all together better when they're on the same page.

Anonymous said...

Looks like our mind enjoys searching for patterns in all kind of stuff

For visuals, we invented painting, sculpture, architecture and ´photography
For language, we invented poetry
For thoughts, we invented science and philosophy
For taste, we invented cooking (I mean gourmet one, not everyday food)
For sounds… we invented music. Is just the human desire to find for patterns in sounds

Ps: I’ll leave for another post if we invented math, or we discovered it

D

Andrew Lehman said...

Geoffrey Miller's "Mating Mind" perhaps goes into the most detail regarding sexual selection and music.

Visit http://bit.ly/4U9xE for another, similar perspective.

paul M. Peterson said...

I tend to think that each of the three main theories listed is correct. These theories are not mutually exclusive. However, none of them is sufficient by itself as an explanation. Darwin's theory, for example, is true in that songbirds do use their mating calls for sexual selection. Birdsong is an early and instant indicator of a suitor's health and vigor. However, that is completely inadequate as an explanation of Beethoven's fifth symphony. As for the second theory, it is true that every country on Earth, and possibly every human institution, uses music to promote conformity and cohesion. Hence, The Star Spangled Banner, Hence the Marching songs of the third reich, etc. But how does this theory explain the Debussy's Nocturnes or the Sex Pistols? It doesn't. That brings us to theory #3, that the enjoyment of music is merely a "happy accident". This is probably true from a neurological perspective. But how much insight does knowing that give you? It is kind of a cop out.

Anyway, thank you for posting this article. Music is one of my favorite subjects.

Mariana Soffer said...

Lydia

Thank you very much lydia this makes me feel really well, to tell you the truth I was not completelly happy with the results, I kept correcting and adding and taking away parts of it many times. Till I decided that I should publish it wether I like it or not, and I should stop being an obsesive gal.
I liked a lot your story about the essay, it is amazing, you are something woman.

Thanks a lot for stepping by

Mariana Soffer said...

Shadow,
that is right, I have been thinking about what you say all the time I was writting this post, because I thought it was not proper for music to be treated as a scientific object of study, even less to be described in that terms, so I did really tried to avoid that. But you words are great. Thanks!

Mariana Soffer said...

John
I completelly agreee that music is a therapeutucal thing, I for instance agree a lot with what oliver sacks says about musicotherapy in his last book. Music is not the same as taking drugs, it has also constructive and creative things. That one thing like music has not a clar purpose for the evolution of humanity does not mean is is bad for it.

I do think music can be related to sex many time, provoke and attarct it.

" Do you think it is inevitable that we would make music as we live in a rhythmic universe?" I do not think one thing does necesarilly imply the other, at least for me.

And do you think that a sense of rhythm is an awareness of time that depends on memory, or is a temporal awareness of a different type?
I think it is certainly related to memory, cause we based our feelings and interpretations of things in our past experience, and how they did work for us indeed.

Thanks a lot for stepping by

Mariana Soffer said...

Charles Gramlich

Thanks for sharing with us your opinion, and you have a pretty nice and solid argument for sustaining it. The brain is wired for processing and also for aquiring information.
It is interesting what you say about once music apreciattion developed, because it is true that once those kind of things are created they take a life of their own, and develop their own rules in themselves.

Pretty interesting comment, thanks Charles, thanks

Mariana Soffer said...

paulandrewrussell

Well there is a theory about how language emerged that is the one you are describing, dough I do not know about music. But I will find out here.

Regarding the origins os music and music from nature
"To begin with, nature as a concept is already a figment of human fantasy. It is a model humans have created for their convenience, to impose order on what surrounds them, to reduce what they preceive to what they can categorize. This is not an act to be slighted per se. In fact it is what lies at the basis of science as well as art. But it is an artefact all the same, not to be confused with the infinite complexity of reality."
http://www.acousticecology.org/writings/renelaselva.html

I also wonder if there is a need for understanding music or not.

Great example about the effects music can have over people. I find this pretty related in what I say in the second paragraph.

It is an amazing intriguing mystery to me how can music affect us so much, that is what makes me want to understand it at a deeper level, although I do not know it I can.

Interesting about the going unconscions and back thing, never thought about that, are you sure it is like this? What about what you see when you open your eyes, can that be the first thing you percieve consciously? like what happens in movies. Anyway I will think about it because it is a really interesting and new thought for me.

Thanks a lot paul, you are so kind and have a very intersting and restless mind.

Take care

Mariana Soffer said...

geek

Good new example you came up with, yes it can be a factor of seduction in some species the music, and I think it is also like that in the human one. I was thinking about that particular phenomenom that the groupies participate in where they find musicians irrisitibles and go after them no matter what.
Lets lern how to sign attractive melodies therefore we could be pretty succesfully in the conquering skill. It would be hilarious to do it.

Send you love geek

Mariana Soffer said...

Jim Murdoch

I am really pleased to know that about you jim, I am a hughe collector also, of very diverse kind of music (although I do not include gregorian in it). And I think that at most I have 1 rap music, I do not connect with it myself either.
Well I guess the best pleasures are the ones you do not depend on, that you can enjoy them but you can also leave well without them. I love pink floyd too, althought I prefer other classical composers rather than bethoven (personal stuff). Today for example I heard 5 times the song "I fall to pieces" from patsy Cline, It hit me to the core.

Yes the no universal apreciation about it is really intersting, I think it is nurture the one who plays a more important role in our likes than nature indeed.
But I think there is a part that is universal for everybody, then there are the different ramifications which diverge in human apreciations of it. I think this points leaves us a lot to think about the human mind, how it apreciates, percives and forms its likes and dislikes

Thanks a lot jim, I really enjoyed reading your comment. And also you made me think some new stuff that expanded my thought range.

Take care

Mariana Soffer said...

Harlequin

thanks to you for your lovely comment, I am glad you apreciate what I talk about here.

"music and dance are so interconnected for me as well": Well I guess there coudn t be any dancing without music, coud it?

Great guy this laban, very intersting indeed.
Laban laid the foundations for Laban Movement Analysis and other more specific developments in dance notation.
In addition to the work on the analysis of movement and his dance experimentations, he was also a proponent of dance for the masses. Toward this end, Laban developed the art of movement choir, wherein large numbers of people move together in some choreographed manner, but that can include personal expression.}

That s the idea of the post my friend to make you think more, to share your post, to get excited about what life how to offer to us.

Love

Mariana Soffer said...

Val

Intersting I never thought about it like that, thanks for opening my horizons about that. I am really glad that you liked it, but the best it that you smile, that feels myself with joy.

Thanks for all

Mariana Soffer said...

Jm Benavidez Estoque

First of all thanks you very much. And regarding you question , I am going to quote what my friend geek said:"We also find that in birds. I forgot which species, but there's a kind of bird in which males "sing" to attract female birds. The one with the most beautiful melody gets to attract the female." Which is a proven fact.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us

Mariana Soffer said...

SarahA

I liked a lot your description about your dance, and joy, it seems great, makes me small and all. Well if you do not have good neighbours you can make sound proof walls, and it would be the same. Keep being like that and enjoying life, that is great.

Mariana Soffer said...

A Cuban In London

Thanks a lot Cuban friend, it is nice that you want to expand it
I knew that afrom reading a lot about the fmri and different studies that neuriscientist did on the effect music has on people emotions, it is interesting.

Anyway somehow I did not wanted to talk about the chemical/elctrical/.. effects of the brain and how the music makes it activate certain parts of it, I was trying to focus on the non neurosicientific part of it. Although I love neuroscience, Sorry I am explaing why I wrote the way I did.


But I found a very intersting article regarding that that I think you might like:

"To the neurons in your ear that catch the first vibrations of sound, your favorite song is just a bunch of frequencies they send to the brain. For the brain to manage these streams of information, to know that these frequencies are actually your favorite song, it must somehow pick apart the meaningful segments: the beginnings, ends and other salient boundaries that define your song. Little is known about this “picking apart” organizational process – more formally known as event segmentation – especially in the auditory realm.

For the researchers, music is the perfect way to study event segmentation because music is a natural stimulus which humans process on a daily basis. In past music-related research, scientists would play dissenting or harmonizing notes and observe the brain’s response. However, neuronal responses to single notes or other simple, controlled stimuli do not properly model how the brain would respond to a set of the organized melodies, harmonies or rhythms we traditionally hear as music. Simulating a natural listening experience would therefore not only give researchers valid insight into the brain’s activity when passively listening to music, but also show how the brain responds to the multiple levels of information it receives from the music. Music also has the added advantage in the laboratory of having well-defined structure and formality, according to Berger, who advised the research team on the musical aspects of the experiments."
http://www.stanfordscientific.org/component/content/article/35-volume-6-issue-2/73-mapping-the-brains-response-to-music-fmri-studies-of-musical-expectations

Thanks a lot for your valuable comment, science it is awaking in me, I can feel it!

Mariana Soffer said...

Uncle Tree

read my explanation to jim benavides, maybe that will clarify it a little bit.

Very intersting, I guess you are right, that is how you learn to be in a mood you have never been, this is enlightining.

I like the tribe story and the fight in it, which includes music and dancing, very poetic example, really nice and thought provolking indeed.

I did not know that about Bach, but somehow it makes a lot of sense to me, because I can relate music to accepatance, letting go, and seeing seing the way they are and will be. We should investigate more the links between music and meditation, I think they are related somehow.

You are right it is like music marks the rhythm and also the mood of the group of people. Therefore if they do something together it is easy for them to understand each other cause they are in the same synthony.

Hugs and love

Mariana Soffer said...

Anonymous
I love patterns, I have been seraching for patterns all of my life, you are right.

Yeah our human cultures have lots of invented disciplines for our different habilities, whether they are perceptual, or processing ones, you are right.

Well your PS part is quite controversial, we are talking about creationism versus the other kind, I do not think most of the population reached any kind of agreement about that.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts

Ps: You who are an experimented' musician, why don't you explain us something about the theory of that, harmony, rythm, melody, .... I am interested about hearing it from you lad.

Mariana Soffer said...

Andrew Lehman

Really intesting texts, thanks a lot for sending it, It clarifyies what he says completely, here is an extract

"Less overt but perhaps more evocative of our evolution is the behavior of the bonobo. Slighter than the chimpanzee, they have far fewer male demonstrations in these matrifocal societies with alpha males often the sons of the head female. Food is often exchanged for sex, and sex is frequent. Very frequent. Bonobo societies are horizontal societies sexually and in social structure. Males are not competing for dominance as intensely as in chimpanzee societies, though they still perform for sex."

I am really thankfull for your contribution man

Mariana Soffer said...

Paul Peterson
Good point, I generally think that facts are not due to only one factor, but due to a combination of several one.

I am really glad that you liked it, and I think it is really intersting and lucid what you say, you have a good perspective, at least acording to me about thit stuff,

Take care

ines.gato22@hotmail.com said...

Have you heard about any intersting therapies implemented with dance and music with people who went trough severe traumas, and that the therapy helped them improved themselves?

Mariana Soffer said...

Here is an extract of an amazing podcast conduced by natasha mitchel. The description is
"In Sierra Leone, child soldiers committed acts that words can barely describe. At the war's end, ravaged communities responded to them with terror and stigma. A minority of former child soldiers, many orphaned, have access to reintegration programs. Dance and movement therapist David Alan Harris describes an extraordinary project to respond to the traumatised psyche through engaging the body."
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2009/2588119.htm

The concept of "mind/body integration" is bandied about a lot. But what does it mean, really? And what happens when the connection between the two disintegrates? And in any case, is there a 'two'? Dualism, dichotomy or continuum? How about the mind as a distributed organ of thought - nerves, hormones, neurotransmitters - in one form or another they occupy every crevice of the body?

Ribbon said...

music is energy and without energy there is no life

x Ribbon

Your blog is wonderful :)

SarahA said...

'makes me small and all' Why? No need.Because.....


'Music'

Where is the music now?

Flying through trees
ageless in it's perpetually

Their sweet harmonies once
brought me peace

but

perhaps their melodies
never ceased

because

their is sound within silence
housed in my heart.

*dance*

Dave King said...

I am very much with Jim on this: music is not one of my passions, not something I am good at or knowledgeable about, but I would hate to be without it. I enjoy classical, modern classical, heavy metal and jazz. I agree that it's a mood enhancer - and a great stimulator of the creative juices, I find! Your post, too, is stimulating.

paulandrewrussell said...

Hi Mariana,

On the point of sound and a person going unconscious: One of the reasons medical professionals talk to seemingly unconscious people is because they can still hear even if they can't communicate. For instance, if CPR is being given to someone and they return to consciousness, then they can sometimes remember what was being said to them.

I don't know anything about hypnotherapy but I imagine the same mechanisms enable suggestion when in a trance like state. And in this case, music is often used to heighten the person's receptiveness to the audible suggestions.

I'm sorry, I appear to have gone off at a tangent to your original post.

Have a great day, Mariana.

John Ettorre said...

Mariana, I'd never before come across that idea of Darwin's, about music evolving through sexual selection. But when you think about it, it sure does make sense and feel right on a gut level. How nice to regularly learn something unexpected from a blog, in addition to being entertained and inspired.

John said...

Mariana.

" Do you think it is inevitable that we would make music as we live in a rhythmic universe?" I do not think one thing does necesarilly imply the other, at least for me.

Oh, why not?
It does seem that we live in a universe of rhythm, and that music is a part of that- sometimes directly inspired by it. The planets orbit the stars, moons orbit the planets, the seasons come and go, animals migrate, the tides come in and out, we breathe, our hearts beat, we wake and sleep, even our brains have rhythmic waves.
I find that classical and romantic music can convey a sense of the universe of interconnected rhythms of nature which I don't find in pop and rock, which is mostly the rhythm of the pelvis. I am not sure why, perhaps it is the abstract philosophical roots of western music that gives it a cosmic quality. As so many people only listen to pop it seems to me that a lot of people are missing out on something fine and grand, maybe that's a reflection of urbanized industrial life of millions of people jammed into cities with their minds placed off nature and onto each other.

It is a very clever trick to be able to take inspiration from something that has no sound, and make a piece of music in an attempt to reproduce the feelings, like Greig's 'morning mood' about the sun. (At least I think so).

Interesting ideas you discuss on your blog Mariana.

otin said...

The answer cannot be found in studies and books. Music is just expression, and people love to express themselves. And the ones who express themselves in a similar way that you might do, are the ones who you gravitate to. Music is pain and drama and passion. You have to feel it! Why do we like music? Just because! :)

Robb Todd said...

Great post. I had read before that music probably predated language. I'm a big fan of words, but who hasn't wanted to be a bird, a song always in your throat?

~otto~ said...

I'm jealous of musicians. Wonderful post.

Ghost Dansing said...

never forget you......

Rick said...

Hello, Mariana! Sorry to have missed your last several posts, but I have been away training.

Have you consider the strong connection between sacred texts and altered states and music?

In some esoteric circles, music is considered an aid to enlightenment.

Ted Bagley said...

Could be that music isn't for anything, doesn't work, and has nothing to teach us. Maybe that's why it's so fascinating.

the walking man said...

the function of music is to fill the silent places of my mind.

/t. said...

well,
i don't know
very much about music --
i mean that i cannot play an instrument, though i would love to be able to -- but music is absolutely indispensable to me and my creative efforts

× × ×

/t.

ju 87 stuka said...

Mariana, can you explain a bit your: "How about the mind as a distributed organ of thought"?

Professor Kelly from Yale has a very funny comment of the "body theory" here, class 11:
http://oyc.yale.edu/philosophy/death/content/class-sessions

The "Star Wars" example of why Luke was still himself after his hand being cut off by Darth (...), is what makes me ask you that question.

I liked your: "I would prefer to say that music is a unique way of knowing the world". Knowing you, you must have read Gardner's "7 intelligences" (There are more now, I guess). How does it relate to that?

John: I agree that most people not listening to classical music means they're missing out on something. But, XX century music, atonal, from A. Berg on so to speak, doesn't convey this rhythm you talk about so well. And yet it does convey a lot, probably more than the romantics at least. Have you listened to Schoenberg, Schostakovich, Pärt, etc? I find they give you far more liberty, in that they don't force you into feeling anything. J. L. Borges even called that "emotional blackmail" (he was speaking about cinema, but I think it applies to other art forms as well).
Like "Romantic music" that you've mentioned. I am thinking about Tchaikovsky or Beethoven. Do you know any that's not "manipulative" in that way?

ojo said...

Short and openning-minded post.

Well, in a few words, I think music is one of the comunciation ways.
Music came not before lenguage. Music is language itself.
The waves of sound that can build toghteter as a music piece, they´re in they´re own creating feed back that - i think, always - became in comuncation.
Its an stimulus taht our brain crate and receive.

Ok: so basic, maybe incomplete. But its the way I percibe music. As a so basic lenguage stimulus.

Regards!

Mariana Soffer said...

Ribbon
Really nice way to put it, "music is energy", I never thought about it like that, but now that I think about it it makes complete sense to me, thanks for opening my eye!

You are great my friend, send you lots of love, and a big thanks for your nice words.

Bye R

Mariana Soffer said...

Sarah

I liked a lot your poem, is lovely, its also wise, thanks for sharing it with us in this post.

I think that music is where You say it is. And I agree that sound can be found in silence, that is part of the magic it has. (Indeed I have a hole theory about it, which I can tell you if you wish, it is related to jazz music and the omission of parts of melodies)

Be well my friend S
M

Mariana Soffer said...

Dave King

I would bet that you know much more about music than you tell, and also that you really connect to it, or else why would you have to be without it? I think you are too humble indeed.

I was thinking that music can also be a mood downer, depends on how the music you listen to affects your emotional state, this is really personal (it depends on too many traits and experiences) I think, some people can get happier by listening to very sad songs, and also the other way round.
But what is true is that music can touch you emotionally, in a very particular an special way.

I am really glad you found my post stimulating, that is one of the best things that can be said to me. Thanks for it Dave.

Be well

Mariana Soffer said...

paulandrewrussell

I agree with it, there is another reason why MD do this, which is to enhance the patient mental state, by calming them down while talking to them.

I did not know you could use hypnosis along with music, never heard of it. It makes sense to me that people might become more receptive while listening to music because their emotional part is more active in these cases (due to the music effect).

Also emotional states have a lot of influence in how the cognitive functions behave, they can be completelly alter by them.

I liked that you went off the tangent, it is really interesting to me, makes me wanna research more about it, but first I need to answer a couple more comments that are here.

Thanks a lot Paul and hope you are doing well

Mariana Soffer said...

John Ettore
I am really glad that you got to discover something new trough this post, I like to make people discover things.
Thanks a lot for your beautiful comments about my post, you are such a gentleman John. A real one

Be well

Mariana Soffer said...

Dear otin:
I agree with what you say, I would just add that music is also joy, and repulsion as well.

And when I think from the artistic viewpoint, which I do a lot, I agree with you, you like music just because.
But I also agree with what a friend said "I think that art might replace the playing activity kids do everyday and grown ups stop doing, Art has pretty similar characteristics to playing, it is exploratory, it is fun, it involves discovering, it involves learning and creating, and so on." And here you have reasons, purposes and the possibility to learn from it.
To tell you the truth I like more this idea of what art is.

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts, they are really interesting to me, they make me think a lot why I do agree or not with what you state, and I am not completelly sure about it anyway (to be sincere)

Take a lot of care

Mariana Soffer said...

Robb Todd
Thanks Robb. I like the theory that says that through music the first attempt of communicating between humans in an organized way, but it did not work, so language took it's place.
I loved your thoughts about birds and music they are really poetic.

Thanks a lot for stepping by and sharing your thoughts

Mariana Soffer said...

otto:

Because the chicks? Or because they can play wonderful melodies?
I would die to be able to do the second question myself.

Thanks a lot otto for your compliment

Mariana Soffer said...

Ghost Dansing

Beautiful song and great vocal and lyrics. hard to believe this has only peaked at number 20 in the UK charts, should have been number one for weeks.

Mariana Soffer said...

Rick

Do not worry my friend you are always welcome here, I miss some posts myself also, so no need to apologize for that.

I know a little, only about Jews, but there are interesting relationships I would like to explore further.
Among Jews the musical performance of sacred text includes a large range of materials, from the half-sung daily prayers that observant Jews must perform before washing or eating, to the mandatory weekly recitation of a passage from the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) in the synagogue. Traditionally, all males were required to learn performance skills for the recitation of many types of sacred texts in order to be considered functioning members of the Jewish community. At the bar mitzvah ceremony, a boy's performance before the congregation signifies his coming of age as a man.

That is just a single example about it, researching this field would take a lot of time. Do you have a theory about it?

Thanks for your interesting questions!

Mariana Soffer said...

Ted bagley
well there is the theory that art (including music) is a by-product of the mind, that it is a kind of secondary (effect/function) our brain developed for no reason at all.

According to the late Stephen Jay Gould, for example, — art is inconsequential to human survival and procreation, and hence cannot be explained by evolution. Art is one of the inexplicable byproducts of the large human brain, a spandrel of evolution, as Gould called them.

Mariana Soffer said...

the walking man

I loved that, but I would think that is to feel the places that need to be filled, because not all of them need that, some can stay in silence and be all right.

Bye bye

Mariana Soffer said...

t
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here I love those.
You can start learning to play one, I started doing it when I was 24, and got into the national (place where you study music, I do not recall the
English name) conservatory is it? I played the saxophone for several years, and I enjoyed it a lot, I just do it for myself, not for playing in public or anything like that, just to enjoy my play, and I knew I was not gifted but I did loved it as well, you should try eventually playing something, give it at least a try.
I can not live without music either, so in that we are alike (although I have some silent times)

Love for you t

Mariana Soffer said...

John
As I said before:
" Do you think it is inevitable that we would make music as we live in a rhythmic universe?" I do not think one thing does necesarilly imply the other, at least to me."

I agree that there are many things in this world that have a certain rhythm, but I think rhytm is just one of the ingredients of music, and music an element which is much more than the sum of it's parts. So I do not think the both should be confused.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you again (please do not take it personal) I think different people enjoy different music in different forms, it is a personal very enjoyment kind, the one music provides. And it is also part of the culture we live in, which influences whether we like it/feel it, or not.

Maybe most of the pepole are listening to industral music nowadays (kind of an irony for the way we are living like in the cities).

Glad you foudn Greig's stuff interesting. It also makes me really happy that you like the ideas discussed here.

Please keep posting, the comments that I do not agree with, are the ones that end up being more challenging and difficult to me, they make me learn a lot, about what I do and do not belive, and why is it.

Take care john

Mariana Soffer said...

Ju 87 Stuka

Well that is not easy to explain at all, let me think how do I start. Let me do it in a whole new comment. In a short while


Great links the yale lectures ones, thanks for making me discover them. So the body theory is "the nature of the body theory, the body theory of personal identity. On this theory, of course, the secret to being the same person is having the same body.". One of the parts I found interesting about the lecture if the resureciton of the body, is that what you where talking about?

I am glad you like that way of seing music that I mentioned. I read a couple of Gardner´s books, but not that one in particular. How does it relate to? well let me say a totally random thought about it, I think musical is one of the different kinds of inteligences a person can have. Although I am not completelly convinced about his theory, specially about calling different inteligence kinds, the different skills or habilities we have, maybe inteligence is a not divisible quality of the mind, is a hole characteristic that is has.
(Sorry I just realized I was mistaken there is another gardner, the mathmatician, the one I read books from, not this one).

Very interesting your reply to john, My favourite part is the borges one (of course). I never thought about music forcing you into a feeling, that is a really interesting statment, it opend my mind, made me reflect about lots of stuff, you can compare it to the comercial music and the non comercial one (the music that force you and the one that doesn t).
I am amazed to see how much you know about music, I am delighted about that, you should teach us more.

Thanks a lot ju

Mariana Soffer said...

Ojo
thanks for the way you describe my post.

I agree with you in all that you say.

I said before that:I like the theory that says that through music the first attempt of communicating between humans in an organized way, but it did not work, so language took it's place.
You can also check my post that about language and music that I think you are going to like, here are some parts:

There are many similarities between music and ordinary language. Description and analysis of these similarities fall into two main areas, syntax and semantics.

Syntax
"A Generative theory of Tonal Music".Developed an account of "M-grammar" the rules for assigning analysis for incoming musical strings. They describe various basic analytical rules of four main types: metrical, grouping, time-span, and prolongational. The theory has a good deal of complexity, as it includes ways in which the rules interact and various ways of ordering musical representations according to their level of abstraction.

Semantics
There are to fundamental analogies:
1.The grasp of meaning is the explanandum for a semantics of either natural language or music: The structural explanation of music is supposed to explain our "musical understanding"--the way music sounds to an experienced listener. This is the musics' "meaning" to us and the underlying structural account should explain why we have such experience.

http://singyourownlullaby.blogspot.com/2009/04/music-and-language.html

Thanks for leaving your nice comment and for stepping bye

Stu said...

The idea that music may have come before language is very interesting. I can imagine that possibility, a 'group noise-making' happening more or less by accident.

I like what you say about music being a way of knowing the world. A way of knowing the world through mystery, perhaps?

I don't see Darwin, Dumbar and Pinker's theories as mutually exclusive either.

Mariana Soffer said...

Ju 87
This is a context where the concept can be found, so you can have a better idea of what we are talking about:

The concept of "mind/body integration" is bandied about a lot. But what does it mean, really? And what happens when the connection between the two disintegrates? And in any case, is there a 'two'? Dualism, dichotomy or continuum? How about the mind as a distributed organ of thought - nerves, hormones, neurotransmitters - in one form or another they occupy every crevice of the body?
“Brain, body, and mind are inextricably linked, and it is only for heuristic reasons that we can still speak of them as if they constitute separate entities.
the psycho-therapeutic use of movement as a process that furthers the emotional, cognitive, social, and physical
integration of the individual.”8 Thus,dance/movement therapists engage at thelocus of the human body an extraordinary fount of meanings.
This refers to healing the mind of seriously traumatized people, with a therapy that consits in music and dance.
The people who are being treated have their parts of their body and brain disconected, due to the severe trauma they suffered in the past, so the idea is reintegrating those parts. Instead of having a distributed mind, make them have a hole integrated one.

Hope you got what I meant, here are a couple of links just in case

http://www.child-soldiers.org/psycho-social/2009_David_Alan_Harris.pdf
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/docid/4988062e28.html
http://www.irct.org/Admin/Public/DWSDownload.aspx?File=%2fFiles%2fFiler%2fTortureJournal%2f17_2_2007%2fart_09.pdf
Take care
M

Mariana Soffer said...

stu:
I liked a lot the idea of music as a failed attempt of being the main way of communication among human beings. Besides what you say I think that music is much closer to the emotional part than languge (which is closer to the rational one). And If you think about it the rational part was the last one to develop on brains. Which might imply that music started long before language could even exist in a human brain.

And I liked what you added to what I say "through mystery, perhaps?" why not I think it is a great question/idea.

Exactelly dude, you are amazing I think the same, they are not necesarely mutually exclusive, Indeed I belive in the three of them. I am so happy you said that, you are the only one who did it. You made my day with it

Take care stu, and thanks a lot for stepping by

Little Lamb said...

You sure do get a lot of comments.

Steve E. said...

Music lifts us humans (and other animals) up to a higher plane , a better way of life, no matter our circumstances.

Interesting that music can so emotionally charge us, and yet the very nature of music is basic mathematics.

PEACE!

Renee said...

Mariana how I love music, it can be a holy experience for me.

Mariana sweet friend, I want to thank you so much for your openness and willingness to share yourself with me. You are a true friend and I will never ever forget the support that you have shown me in this difficult time.

Love to you dear friend.

Love Renee xoxo

julochka said...

have you seen oliver sacks' musicophilia book?

Mariana Soffer said...

little lamb
Somtimes I do, but my favourites are the ones from 4 legged fellows

Mariana Soffer said...

julochka
Yes, thanks for bringing it up, I like a lot the following execeprt from his book:"Music has also played a crucial role in Sacks’s work as a neurologist. In his writings, he uses music as a metaphor for his unusual approach to medicine. He cites a Novalis aphorism—“Every disease is a musical problem; every cure is a musical solution”—in several books, usually when discussing the therapeutic powers of music. But it’s clear that Sacks also believes in a deeper, less literal connection between medicine and music, which is why Musicophilia reads like a retrospective. Music encapsulates two of the most essential aspects of his work: listening and feeling. The art form is the model for his method. As a doctor, Sacks is exquisitely attentive, not just to the symptoms, but also to the person. He treats each patient like a piece of music, a complex creation that must be felt to be understood. Sacks listens intensely so that he can feel what it’s like, so that he can develop an “intuitive sympathy” with the individual. It is this basic connection, a connection that defies explanation, that allows Sacks to heal his patients, letting them recover what has been lost: their sense of self.".
I have been reading his books since "the man who mistook his wife for a hat", which I think is a great one to start with.

Bye bye

Mariana Soffer said...

Steve E
interesting comment, that reminded me of the following:
Pythagoras, who was primarily a musician even though he is renowned for mathematical theories (there's definitely a correlation between math and music as well). Pythagoras even developed a school of thought that became popular in Rome during his lifetime, it revolved around the premise that music was healing and that one could heal a person (their psyche and their bodies) through music therapy.

And I do agree that they are pretty related, it is intresting, you can also check with the book goedel escher and back where they relate those disciplines somehow.

Thanks for stepping by
M

Mariana Soffer said...

Renee

You desrve that and much more, for me it feels very nice to be able to at least make you some tiny little company in times like this.

big kiss

TC said...

Mariana,

Why is it we are always thinking about the same things at the same time?

My new post has five parts, the fifth is about your present subject, Music, the second is about another of your recent subjects, Religion--and the whole thing is posted on, of all things, your penultimate subject, the Internet.


Heartbreak Hotel

What's going on here? Were we born in parallel dimensions, fated never to meet yet always to be thinking the same thoughts?

benjibopper said...

perhaps music is just one of the god-like unknowns of the universe, something to be thankful for.

dirt clustit said...

Your posts are extremely thought provoking. Excellent exercises for the mind.

reading all the different perspectives in the comments really gets me exploring my own thoughts and theories regarding the subject.

I feel that music is amazing. Music is reaches out and mingles with so many aspects of the mental, physical, and spiritual realms.

Music is a miracle.

I can't think of ANYTHING that is so EVERYTHING.

It's totally and completely art. No patterns, rhyme or reason

sometimes

It can also be totally and completely a science. Impeccable displays of precise mathematics in circles and fifths, circles of fifths.

Harmonies and waverings in such a way that No numbers have to be crunched or equations to balance out.... whether the waves align or not can be instantly heard.

Some frequencies are undenieably felt. To not dance or not flow with the energy (to essentially remain still) can often take more energy then allowing yourself to be moved....

physically

emotionally

mentally

spiritually

whether completely or partially.


Did being invent music or was it discovered?

Yes

but it seems that no answer, belief, or explaination that makes complete sense or absolutely no sense...

there is no answer that changes what music IS

It is everything if you choose to believe.

While I believe it is most commonly heard. The are definitely waves (that I feel qualify to be defined as music) that can felt without hearing.

Thank you for posting. I love the way your post and the comments triggered my thoughts and reminded me of an overlooked miracle.

I have to get to work. So I apologize for hitting publish my comment without proofreading.

There was no icon that said publish your rambling thoughts ravenously typed for the best translation of that rambling train of thought triggered by reading your post.

I admire the way you are able to communicate your thoughts and ideas with typed out words

Rayuela said...

Un amigo odontólogo, poeta y pintor; me contó no hace mucho que, en una clase de Citología, un profesor aseguró que las células vibran en Fa.Entonces, si es así, música somos!

Tus publicaciones son cada vez más interesantes, un gran beso!

Ted Bagley said...

S J Gould was an insightful guy.

aditya said...

Very articulate Mariana ..

I bet, there isn't a human being on the planet who doesn't listen to music. I could place my entire, however small, scholarship on this one. hmm .. Yes !

ps -- I have to admit .. I am sorry about this .. but I had forgotten about you .. until I stumbled onto you somehow, realizing maybe she commented on my blog ! Better late than never .. :)

socratesoul said...

Dang, sorry I'm so late on this. I don't have the patience to read all the comments before me, but yes, this is a fascinating topic. One that I believe deserves more study. Not too long ago, I decided that when asked about my religion, I would say it was Music. Without words, it touches on the spirituality within me. And this is good, because most of my problem with religion/spirituality is that when I think about it, it doesn't make sense. But when I just allow myself to FEEL it, especially through music, then it all makes perfect sense.

SarahA said...

Yes I do wish.Really! I do not lie! Please enlighten my brain.

Maxine said...

Music (and indeed poetry) has always also played a very important role in history-keeping through oral tradition. I too, liked the topic of this post.

Uncle Tree said...

Note to Stephen Jay Gould:
People need culture, as bad as they need their own gods. Music and art have very sustainable powers. We cannot even imagine the life of a homo sapiens without them. Well, we could, but not for long. The ego is a work of art, and it's still around, too.

Anything that is perceived as good for man's well-being,
might as well be considered good for his survival.

Don Henley: "Don't you know that women are the only works of art?"

P.S. In the game, "Name That Song", I'm unbeatable when it comes to the Rock~N~Roll classics. Uncle Tree is wired up. He scares me quite oft. Hellooooo...Hugz!

Jagriti said...

i think music has been even before man discovered it...take for example the rhythm of our breath, the rhythmic gushing of the waves, the pitter-pattar of rain, our heatbeat...

and i think that since it is something so basic to us, it works on us and moves us...

what does it teach..? ~ oneness with everything and everyone...

wonderful subject mariana...enjoyed reading it and thinking about it.

Jason Gusmann said...

hey mariana - i believe that music was a gift given to assist teenagers in surviving adolescence. sounds darwinian on the surface, but the sexual selection angle is absent.

poeticgrin said...

There's nothing more spiritual to me than music. It's where I find love, where I find God, where I find peace, inspiration, memory. My manuscript includes a poem called "Hymn," about two lovers reconnecting through music. Who needs mind-altering drugs when one can sit in a dark room and listen to a saxophone?

poeticgrin said...

There's nothing more spiritual to me than music. It's where I find love, where I find God, where I find peace, inspiration, memory. My manuscript includes a poem called "Hymn," about two lovers reconnecting through music. Who needs mind-altering drugs when one can sit in a dark room and listen to a saxophone?

aditya said...

Heyy Mariana

I probably commented previously too, but I guess I forgot to publish it. Silly ...

There isn't a human being on the planet who doesn't listen to music. I could bet my entire, however feeble scholarship, on this one.

Very articulate .. this write up.

Mariana Soffer said...

TC:
I do not know, but I like it, we must connect the things that go on in a similar way.

Great new post tom they are excellent:



I have the theory that people who think alike and have access to the same kind of information tend to end up in the same related stuff. That is one chance, the other one is that is that we are just randomly connected, by chance, this happens to me also with a guy from another blog, he is called rob Bryanton, from the tenth dimensions, we bump into awesome coincidences things we both talk of.
And to add a small think I wrote something about Gaugin influance on van gogh, I think is in tipota's blog but I am nor sure, amazing dude.
Take care
M

Mariana Soffer said...

benjibopper:
Welcome benji, I completelly agree that music is something to be thankful for.
Perfect definition for it.

Mariana Soffer said...

dirt clustit
Thanks very much!

The comments really make me explore and think a lot too, I am glad it does the same to you.

I agree with your description of music, I really like it.

this words are amazing "I can't think of ANYTHING that is so EVERYTHING." You are great.

Sorry but I do not understand the following lines, why not patterns? I think it does have them but it does not take away the magic.

I agree no math needed, it is instantly heard, that is like it.

It can take more energy, I agree.

I liked your answer yes, and it does not change anything that answer I think the same. But do not be afraid of the search for it, do not repress it.

Thanks a lot to you, you added amazing things to my blog content, thanks a lot.

I admire you, and the marvelous thinks you are going to express think and invent without planning them. Those are great

Thanks a lot man! You surely left me thinking on this text.

I

Mariana Soffer said...

Rayuela said:
A friend of mine who is an orthodontist, a poet and a painter told me , not long ago, that in a class where they thought about cells a teacher assured that cells vibrate in FA. Then if this is true, we are all music,

Your publications are each time more interesting, big kiss!

Mariana Soffer said...

Rayuela:
I loved it! IT is so poetic so nice, so creative. Thanks for adding that!.
Well do you know that when you play piano you have two main scale the upper one is in Sol(E), and the lower one, the one that carrier the harmony is in FA(F). Maybe cells are in charge of keeping our body harmonies.
Who knows?

Thanks you so so much!

Mariana Soffer said...

Ted Bagley:
I know this is a little off but I loved it about him:

“Gould’s The Median Isn’t the Message is the wisest, most humane thing ever written about cancer and statistics. It is the antidote both to those who say that, “the statistics don’t matter,” and to those who have the unfortunate habit of pronouncing death sentences on patients who face a difficult prognosis. Anyone who researches the medical literature will confront the statistics for their disease. Anyone who reads this will be armed with reason and with hope. "

Take care friend

Mariana Soffer said...

aditya
Thanks a lot!

I bet you are right, at least about all the cultures I know about.

I am really happy that it is is now aditya, whenever it happens the important is to enjoy and exchanging nice stuff.

Thanks for stepping by

Mariana Soffer said...

Socrates

You do not need to read them, I will just copy here for you a couple of the ones I consider nice.

Very interesting what you say about adding music to the spiritual religion part of yourself, which makes it somehow make sense inside your own, that is a great discovery of your own, which I think you should explore more and more, do not be afraid to do it, search for the spirituality, I think all of us need to.
I was thinking that for many people music is related to dancing, but for many others it can be related to spirituality, and so on ... Relationships inside us are as mysterious as the art that makes them associate each other sometimes.


Thanks a lot for sharing your great reflections with us. Here is a part of a comment I liked..

WM said:the function of music is to fill the silent places of my mind.

Mariana Soffer said...

Sarah:

Sorry your comment is kind of confusing, because I do not know where it comes from. Can you expand it what you ask for a little bit, so maybe I can give some aid.
Do you want me to help you understand new stuff? I will be more than please do to that (at least what I can). Please just guide me towards where you do want to walk.
IT will be an honor and a pleasure such a tasks.

Bye bye

Mariana Soffer said...

Maxine:
It is like that indeed, they helped keep tradition from dying. And as you know I think music and language, as well as poetry are closely related:
Nowadays we use language to transmit our knowledge, desires, frustrations etc. Language is an extremely complex structured system that allows us to exchange information between humans beings. Probably music developed before it for the same purposes that language did but failed to evolve satisfactorily and was replaced by our current form of communication.

I am glad you liked this post topic, thanks for stepping by a lot!

Mariana Soffer said...

uncle tree:
Hi my dear uncle!

I like when you say that ego is a work of art, great reflection that.

Regarding the good for man well-being paragraph, I am not so sure, because well-being does not necessarily lead to to the survival of the fittest, you can feel good, enjoy things, but not improve the population chances of adaptation to the environment or and other things. I am just rambling, I am nor sure about this.

Fabulous ending, the line that makes a question made me smile nicely and comfortable.

The ending made me laugh out loud. You are great, make me smile twice these day!.

Love you man

Mariana Soffer said...

Jagriti
I have my doubts about that , I think it is not the same, rhythm, harmony, melody, which are the parts music is made of, than all of them together, which are much more of the sum of its parts, I do no know, it is just a doubt. How do we measure the level of musicality of a sound? do you have an idea about that? Is is related to how it makes us feel?How deep inside? I am nor sure.

It definitely moves us because it is related to our basic parts. OR as you say it is our basic parts.

I am really happy you enjoyed it, thanks a lot!

Mariana Soffer said...

Jason Gusman

I loved you idea about being a gift to teenagers to survive adolescence, I was just reading a note about them the other day in the Austrian BBC, and I is really interesting what happens to them, they certainly could use some help.
Well the sex can be related to the promiscuous (not that there is anything wrong with it)ambient that teenager rock and roll music live in.
Anyway I think it is a mix of the three.

Thanks a lot for your sharing JG

Mariana Soffer said...

poeticgrin
Lovely words, they are great, and special, to me, because I choose the saxophone, which is the only instrument I dared to play seriously, well tried to, by doing charlie Parker kind of music, among other, things. And also studied at a conservatory for a year that same instrument seriously.

I agree with what you say, nothing more is needed.

Thanks dear poetG

Mariana Soffer said...

aditya
Please do not excuse yourself, you are allowed to make as many mistakes as I do in this blog, and even more because you are my guest.

I think you said that, but anyway, I was thinking what about the deaf people, can they hear it?

Thanks a lot anyway for completing your thinking

koe whitton-williams said...

Mariana - what a wonderful posting and discourse through the comments. . . I have played music through my whole life - I remember playing 'secret agent man' on a toy guitar forty-some years ago. I studied piano and percussion in college and play a perfectly terrible guitar piece or two today.

There is no correct answer to the mystery of music of course. . . my own opinion is that it was more of a happy accident that we as a species tend to be more willing to listen to the same piece of music 1,000 times than hear the same story 1,000 times.

If you have a few hours to spare (who does?) Leonard Bernstein gave six lectures at Harvard years ago called 'The Unanswered Question.' It is a fascinating work on the origins and history of music. The question remains unanswered but it's a fascinating journey through music and language.

Thanks again for posting this. . .

Mariana Soffer said...

koe whitton-williams

Thanks a lot, you are such a genetelman my friend. Very interesting, I did not know that you did also play music yourself, I automatically admire people who have that skill. It amazed me. But id does not happen with me because I did not consider myself really good at it. If you read the upper comments you will see what I did regardings music, some of the things.

I thin k the music mystery is not made to be solve, it is to be apreciated and amazed by it.
You have a great point about litsen to the same piece of music a 1000 times nat to the same story, maybe it is because it is more closely related to feelings (who knows). But on the other side kids like to hear the same stories told to the a millon times, I think preferences changes with age, don't they?

It is so tempting to watch what you say, it must be amazing, but I am going to save it for better times, I need to work today, tnanks a lot for the recomendation, I wont forget.

Thanks a lot and take care
M

Andy Coffey said...

Thanks for this blog. I found it through Faun.
All your comments about music move me. There is so much one could say: is it moaning and crying that is transformed to singing, for that is what it feels like to me. I agree that music transforms my moods. It is impossbile to stay in a dark mood, while singing a depressing song: they make me happy!
Thanks for this blog: I will read the entire thing, happy to live in this braver world.

Mariana Soffer said...

Andy
First thanks for all the compliments a lot! I like Faun, he writes well I am also an acquaintance of her girl friend Cinnamon do you know her? She also writes well.
I love what you said, it is amazing it is the same that happens to me but I never heard anybody else state it. When you are sad and sing something sad you cheer up! ha interesting, we can that be? I will be thinking about it.

Thanks A C

Andy Coffey said...

Mariana,

My sister Mary, is an Art Historian who specializes in Latin American, South American questions of Art. She has spent some time in your incredible country, and has nothing but enthusiasm for sharing this planet, with you.
Needless to say, your agricultural accomplishments provide the USA with a great deal of inspiration. Argentina's been at it a while, right?
I am also thrilled you are a scientist, and researcher with such a heart. I believe, as you seem to, that science is moving toward a greater and greater merging of all disciplines of human connection. That said, I love the stingy, foot stomping, temper tantrums of scinece, in the face of God Himself. Don't you?
Music: vibrations on a quantum scale, logrithmic, and tuned staight to the lock in your chest. Otherwise, your out of key!
Thanks!

Andy Coffey said...

Mariana,

I'm sorry, I forgot to answer you're question: yes! I know Ande's wife, Jenny. Ande, she and I made our aquaintence through a friend of mine here in Bloomington, Indiana, Neil Graf, who's Blog Nauthis, you seem to be "exploring." I've known Neil for a long time, and I guess he's responsible for me getting to meet all of you. Neil's blog is wonderful, and I was thrilled to see it here. Your blog is unusual, and a real gem. It's nice to read about science! And Art. Sorry I forgot, Ande and Jenny a so great to talk to.

Mariana Soffer said...

Andy Coffey

How interesting what you tell me about your sisterm I would like to meet her.
YEah, our meat is really famous all over the world.

You are right science is merging different disciplines, I like that, I love that.

Sorry I did not understand your words, I guess it a second language issue

"That said, I love the stingy, foot stomping, temper tantrums of scinece, in the face of God Himself. Don't you?"

Cool,i like what you say about music, thanks for it!

Tape said...

"La música nos salva,
la música nos lava el alma."
Mi cita favorita de una letra de Aterciopelados. ESO es la música para mi. Cheers!

Tape said...

"La música nos salva,
la música nos lava el alma."
Mi cita favorita de una letra de Aterciopelados. ESO es la música para mi. Cheers!

Mariana Soffer said...

Tape
"music save us
Music cleans our soul"
Mi favorite quote is from the lyrics of the aterciopelado Colombian group.
That is music to mi.
Cheers!

Mariana Soffer said...

Tape
Great definition of music, I like it, I like the quote also. I am a real fan of several of the aterciopelados CDs, I love them indeed. My favorite song used to be "Buena estrella" and it starts like this:
La conjunción de los planetas
Mi paz quiere perturbar
Pero me siento protegida
Tengo mi talismán
Seguro tendré larga vida
Trébol superestar