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Monday, September 28, 2009

Comments about Meaning, Language and Music

Meaning

1. Meaning is the human desire to "know" & "understand". Meanings are the concepts we build to see order where apparently there is none.

2. Realization is the meaning. This is true especially for poetry and all modern art.

3. Is Abstraction more real than nature? Is meaning individual, as opposed to collective?

4. If I look for the meaning of a word in a dictionary - I am given the meaning in terms of other words and if I don't know the meaning of them, I can look them up... to infinity.

5. Someone once told me the world itself is abstract, it's only the way we perceive it that makes it concrete.

6. All meaning is context dependent. Nothing has inherent meaning. Which leads me to think that meaning is in the relationship and interaction between things.

7. Our objective view on the world can only ever be subjective simply because we have to give meaning to everything because nothing is concrete; we bring it all into existence in our minds.

8. I always felt that worry was somehow a terrible mutation of anticipation.


Language and Music

9. I choose to believe in the theory enunciated by my beloved Laurie Anderson, in which "Language is a virus from outer space".

10. I still wonder what that first language was. and who invented spelling???

11. I believe in never-ending storage theory (were we have an unlimited memory). If we could know the whole of our minds, we could know the hole universe probably.

12. Language bgaen wehn i ievtnned it jsut now.

13. Sometimes I think it's not the world that is moving faster, it's me that is moving slower. In a relativistic universe, how do I tell the difference? (While talking about how fast language changes)

14. I don't need to know why. music makes me smile, cry, takes me back in time, builds dreams and wishes, drives creativity, lifts me up, takes me down. music just is...

15. Interesting that music can so emotionally charge us, and yet the very nature of music is basic mathematics.

Now try to match as many sentences as you can with their correct author, I should warn you that there are a couple that do not belong to signed comments.

Authors

Steve E, Rob Bryanton, tape, /t, Ariel, Shadow, Shubajjit, Lane Savant , Debora kay, human being , Medicated Lady, Janetk, Gingatao , paulandrewrussell ,tinkerbell the bipolar faery

55 comments:

Rob Bryanton said...

What a great idea for helping to build the sense of community amongst your enthusiastic readership! Another brilliant idea, Mariana.

Rob

Paul said...

The only one I recognise was mine but this one is the funniest, congratulations to whoever it was "12. Language bgaen wehn i ievtnned it jsut now." hahaha, brilliant.

Mariana Soffer said...

Rob Bryanton

Thanks a lot for your encouraging comments, actually the idea of the previous post was mine, which is pretty similar, but the idea of making people guess whose quote belongs to who is from a friend, I do not remember who told me but it is in the previous post comments.

Thank you very much, hope you are doing great

Mariana Soffer said...

Paul

Ha, I like that you like that one, is amazing, isn t it? I can not tell you here now to whom it belongs to, but I will send you a mail telling you if you, so you do not need to wait to know that.

Bye and thanks Paul

ines.gato22@hotmail.com said...

I liked a lot several of these sentences,

I was wondering about number 2, how can abstraction be more real than nature? I do not get it. But I like the idea.

And I like number 13, it feels so real, I bet that one is from the guy called Ariel.

Mariana Soffer said...

ines

Thank you very much for sharing your choices, regarding from who is the sentence I will let you know after this contest ends, but good guess anyway.

I think that the idea about something abstract being more real is related to how our mind work. before we internalize something we have to convert it to something abstract for our minds to be able to feel its reality in a strong way.

Pedro said...

I totally agree with number 8, it is a great sentence done by someone with a lot of insight. I am not really familiar with the names of the people here so I am just going to guess that is from tinkerbell.

Mariana Soffer said...

Pedro

also thanks for your choice and you wild guess, I was going to tell you that I have a really old post about what that phrase tells. It contains a part telling:

Worrying is usually thought of as a bad thing because it focuses on the negative side. However, it is possible to use the same set of resources with a positive focus. You may be surprised to hear people speaking of worrying as being skill. But don't forget that skills are something we practise in order to eventually get good at them.. .Worrying actually involves two key psychological skills: the ability to form vivid mental pictures and to create inner dialogue.

here you can find the rest:
http://singyourownlullaby.blogspot.com/2009/03/worring-skills.html

Shadow said...

hey! i did spot my own one there, thank you!

no 15 i like. it supports my belief that art and science rely on each other and can learn and benefit from another (comment on your previous post)...

and no 1 i totally agree with too.

Andy Coffey said...

Mariana,

Thanks for checking out my blog. I loved the game you created for "find the author." Darn clever scientists!
I particularly enjoyed your entry on abstraction vs. concrete. Lately I have been salivating all over complexity theory, and to some extent information theory (wonderful book The Rainbow and the Worm by Mae-Wan Ho, check it out.)
It is my feeling that abstraction is more or less, as you hypothesized, the way things are at thermodynamic equilibrium. However, life seems to detest such a circumstance and "concreteness" seems to very much be a flower off the tree of complexity, to which we very much belong. Consciousness seems to have a role to play between our bodies and the universe, but it is my guess concreteness exists on a continuum between total abstraction and the effervescent complexity of unstoppable life.
Thanks for your capacious mind, and generous blog!

Mariana Soffer said...

Shadow

Nice to see you! I am glad you spotted your own, it is a fantastic one.
and thanks a lot.

You are right number 15 found a great way of saying that, also in the previous post I had a comment left by val
which says something related to that, take a look at it, is a great one.

I think you know the author of number 1, I am almost sure about it.

Be well my great talented friend.
M

Mariana Soffer said...

Andy Coffey

I am really happy you like this, I have no idea what people would think about this, I thought they might not interest some, but I gave it a try to see.

It is really interesting the abstract vs congret duality.

I would love to discuss those theories, I know a lot about the second one, but not that much about the first.

Very interesting what you say, I was just reading a theory about metaphors that are also a continum, ranging from plain, passing trough analogies, and then going to the most complex kind of refering to something. Indeed I am writting my next post that is related to that, abstraction and also to consciousness, which is what you mention here, I think we are in syncro these days, it draw my atention seriously the topic that you mentioned here.

Thanks a lot, hope you are doing well.

John Ettorre said...

I think #6 is especially right on, Mariana. Nicely said.

Renee said...

Mariana I love the poem it was wonderful.

Love to you dear friend.

xoxox

Mariana Soffer said...

John Ettorre
That is fantastic, I read it tons of time when someone comment that on my blog. I was amazed it was much more interesting than what I said about meaning. Well that is the good thing about communicating trough here.

Thanks E

Mariana Soffer said...

Renee

I am glad you liked it, and it makes me reallt really happy every time you came and leave a message.

Thanks! and take care dear, take your good time to rest.

paulandrewrussell said...

Hi Mariana,

I like this post, good for my ego. lol

Although I must attribute my comment to someone waaaaay smarter than I.

Have a great day. :-)

Otin said...

I read the whole thing thinking that you wrote all that, and I was happy that you tuned down some of the analytical views and went for some more emotional perspectives on things, and then I found out that they were all comments from others and I cried and cried! hehehe!

/t. said...

mariana,

you just keep
these hits coming :)

it is interesting to me to see these many thoughts collected together like this -- inspiring(!)

i can identify with several of the quotes, but number 6 resonates most strongly for me at this time

great post, m

× × ×

/t.

human being said...

.
.
.

sounds, letters, notes
images, concepts, words

a jigsaw puzzle to find
who is who

i am absent
and it's all about you
.
.
.

JanetK said...

What a clever thing to do Mariana! There are two that I agree with so completely that I may have said one of them - 4 and 6. There are two others that really made me think. They are not at all the sort of thing I would say and I wish I know your readers well enough to guess who said them - 2 and 15.

A Cuban In London said...

Brilliant post and I hope people had a bash when matching quote to contributor.

Greetings from London.

Dave King said...

There are a lot of points needing to be reconciled there. A lot of work to do! Your number 14 though, is the one I find most interesting. It seems to me that the why of that could unlock so much that I'd love to know.

Uncle Tree said...

You have 80 'friends' now, Mariana. And you expect us to be able to keep track of all that intelligence spilling over into your posts?

If someone guesses all of them right, I'd say they might be watching a bit too close for comfort. Alas, it also could be my failing memory trying to defend itself.

You will have to tell us who said what eventually, you know.

I think I might like to argue with the author of #6. I like #8. #11 sounds familiar. Like the Cosmos has been scripted and archived from day one and page one. M'Lady said #14? I agree.

Oh, btw. You need a comma in your title behind 'Meaning', unless you meant something other than that. Now I'm being picky. See where you've taken me? To Orneryville.

Objects do have inherit meaning, we've just learned to read more into them than what they were intended to stand for in the first place. Beginnings are so vague. That's why we invented numbers. (#1 Ha!)

That was fun, Mariana. Thanks! The Mutated Worry Wart Tree

Ted Bagley said...

I'm stupid 'cuz I'm missin' it.

Harlequin said...

such a neat double whammy- a tribute and a game....
well done..
I will need more time to complete the matching column question...

justAnotherGeekgirl said...

hahaha! what a funny game! :) i am not trying now... i ll take my time ;) and its also funny i´ve been thinking about some of these ideas last days... specially num 7 O_O (crazy!) but i am still falling with a stone in num 8 :P , and love to read about laurie anderson! in a kind of gray day i am going to sleep thinking about outer space viruses :) thanks :)

JR's Thumbprints said...

Some forms of communication are much stronger than others. For example: Waving a fist in the air for punctuation obviously demonstrates a mode of seriousness (that is, unless the person is outright crazy).

Jason Gusmann said...

what a lovely selection! mariana, yr readership is amazing, as are you. please keep producing yr mind-blowing blog posts!

Mariana Soffer said...

paulandrewrussell
I am glad you like it and also that is good for your ego, you diserve to belive that you worth a lot my friend.

I does not matter to me where you got it from , it is more inmportant to recognize how good it is what you are quoting, saying or writting. You are always influenced by outside people, who change the things you say and wrote anyhow.

Love M

Mariana Soffer said...

otin:
You thought I was following your adviceds, well indeed you are my man, do not think I do not think about you tell me all the time.

PS: Hope you cry for you, because I also choosen althought not written, thinking about things you guys tell and teach to me in these comments.

Love

Mariana Soffer said...

t
I am glad you find this inspiring, I found that inspiring also, in my case you brought that inspiration in my.

I like that you can identify with several lf the quotes, because I can identify myself trying to understand and learn more to think the way you do, specially about fun and art (I love that aspect from you)

I think number 6 it is pretty similar to how you interpret and see things In life, that is how you relate to it, try to find out who s is it, if you can not I will let you know soon, It would be good for you to be in touch.

Cheers t

Mariana Soffer said...

human being

Beautiful poem, you left me with out words, I can not agree more with the first parts, and then there are much many things to be thoughts and added to it in these verses, I guess it could never end.

You are amazing human being, incredibly great

Hug
M

Mariana Soffer said...

JanetK
Hi, Nice to see you here, I am really great you think that about the first 2 entries you mentioned.If you check t also mentioned numbers six, and john etorre number 4, interesting. you might exchange talks with them. But There are excelent quotes, I agree with them completelly, mainly with number 6.

Shadows mentions numner 15, and I owe you number 15, you will have to find them by yourself, or well till the end of the contest. But I am happy because I guess I got you to connnect with art, which is really great. If you open more that dore you are going to discover many intersting, englighting and thoughtfull thought.

Take care J

Mariana Soffer said...

A Cuban In London

Thank you very much cuban, you are great.
I never thought about giving a bash to to people, but maybe I should, they diserve recognition because the work is theirs, not mine. Maybe I will do.

I thought a lot about including several lf the things you say, there are great indeed, I guess they where just not matching with the subjects of the quotes I was including in.

Love my friend.
PS: by the way yesterday I was I movie from a cuban dancer starring patrick swecy and a mexican, youg actor, it was not good, but It reminded me of how you must have lived in you city long time ago. And I enjoyed the dancing a lot.

Mariana Soffer said...

Dave king.

you are right there are many things that need to be reconciled here, because they seem to be oposed, but maybe they are not that much, they just appear to be like that in the surfased mostly.


That is from a great thinker/writter/poet/person. I like that you find this your favourite.

You should probabbly talk to the creator of the quote, he is a wise guy, I guess you can realized he is an artist also. I would also like to discuss about it.
Dear authour if you want to tell us who are you and a few tips regardings the texts me and Dave would love to get deeper on some of the things you said, if you do not mind, I will send your blog to him, so you can be in touch anyway.

Love for all

Mariana Soffer said...

Uncle Tree

Well 80 have a doubtfull aestheticsI think, that is part of being intelligent isn 't it? Thanks any way uncle dear.

Do not worry I do not think nobody will, there where to many comments, and I have to confess some I have to change their exact wordings. But if you take your time and review the posts involved in these commenting I am sure you might be able to find them all, with patience.

I will do it uncle, I promise it.

6 seem to be pretty popular check what t, janet and ettore mentioned it.

8 is interresting, really I agree.

11 Think why it might sound familiar to you.

14 Sorry it was not m lady, but her s was related to it, you still understand the escence of people uncle T.

I was probably wrong uncle, good that you tell me I will check.


It is great what you said about meaning, I like it, the idea that we intend to read more.

Why do you relate beginings being vague and numbers? to make it more firm? is that it? It is true that things start vague generally, no argue with it.

I am happy you have fan, I really am. Please do not mutate to much, you are awesome as you are just a tiny litty bit.

Mariana Soffer said...

Ted bagley

You are not stupid friend, maybe you just do not know these people good enough to guess at least one of the quotes they wrote by themselves in my comments.

You are not missing it friend, and if you think you do just ask what is it that you do not get. I will be more than happy to help you with it.

Cheers

Mariana Soffer said...

Harlequin

Nice way to put it my friend, first I thought of it as a tribute, but them somebody suggested to make also a game out of it, thought it might be neat.

Take all the time you need, this is a game with no prescipecified end time. I will put a not the day before I close it.

Take care dear H

Mariana Soffer said...

justAnotherGeekgirl

I am glad you liked it, I was missing you already my only argentinian geek friend. 7 and 8 are not easy thoughts/quotes to just let enter in your system, they are amazing and complicated. They also have soem kind of magic (I think).

I am glad you liked the laurie anderson thing she is one of my favourites poets performers singers, from the eighties, I died when I discoverer her, she Is an incredible being.

Also I can send you a let x equal x lullaby, so you can sleep well, take care my friend.

Mariana Soffer said...

JR's Thumbprints

Well I guess it depends on which culture they are used in, and what you mean by strongness, emphasis, or some other kind of thing?
I do not get why punctuation demonstrates seriousness, in the context that you are saying it?
Sorry to bother you why my questions is just that they are difficult concepts the ones you are telling to me.

Thanks a lot for stepping by Jr. please keep comming, you are always welcome.

Mariana Soffer said...

Jason Gusman
Thanks a lot jason, you are a great artist and thinker too. It is really kind from you the things that you are telling me here. I was also about to put one of your wise comments you left here, but I could not make it match with the other ones, neither to make it short enough, because this time I tried to keep them all of a similar size.

But you will see you will have you great words quotated here eventually.

Cheeres

TC said...

"Take all the time you need, this is a game with no prescipecified end time. I will put a not the day before I close it."

Hi Mariana,

Each of your posts teaches or reminds us of something important (apart from the important fact that you're doing all this, which of course nightly amazes me anew).

But about games and time limits and winners: the only kind of game I can make myself play any more is the only game that I'm still allowed to play in anyway, that's the infinite game of life. I call it infinite though I know it's finite, it's just that unless I lie to myself and tell myself it's infinite I can't make myself keep playing it.

The object of this game is very simple: to keep playing.

If anyone were to win or lose or the time were to run out, the game would be over, which is absolutely the last thing I'd like to see happening.

Love as ever, besitos & c.,

Tom

Mariana Soffer said...

TC
You are so kind with me, thanks you give me advices as if you where my parent, good ones indeed. I already changed what you suggested about leaving open the ending time. I just could not help and said it will end after a small equation is done.

Interesting about in-finite/limit-less games, nice way to think about them It could never occured to me to trick my brain that way. But it is fun an great, I think you should do that, as long as you have fun.

Excelenent sentence, that goes for my next compilation "The object of the game is very simple: to keep playing", it is great indeed, it says lots of interesting things in just a few words.

Interesting the idea of not ending, but I was wondering, not even when somebody reaches the end? and by that I mean makes everything that has to be made to win the game? I think you might be right, I still have to think about it deepely.

Lots of love dear tom, hugs for the TC friend

raul said...

I think a lot about the secound part of number 10, who invented spelling? why, what for? who cares about it?
Does it have an evolutive function in language?
I random guess would be Debora Kay, but it is probably a wrong one.

Thanks a lot for this great stuff.

Mariana Soffer said...

RAUL
Well I checked out a little bit the history of english spelling, it starts like this:
Spelling has traditionally been considered to be a component of the English/language arts curriculum. Among most educators and the public, spelling retains its traditional definition: "the knowledge and application of the conventional written representation of words in the process of writing, and the instruction necessary to develop this knowledge." During the last few years of the twentieth century, however, many psychologists and educators extended this definition to include spelling knowledge, meaning an understanding of how the written form of words corresponds to their spoken counterparts and underlies the ability to decode words during the process of reading and to encode words during the process of writing. Because of this insight into the role of spelling knowledge in reading as well as in writing, spelling research and instruction were generating considerable interest and focus in the field of literacy at the beginning of the twenty-first century.

English spelling balances a demand to spell units of sounds consistently from word to word with a demand to spell units of meaning consistently from word to word. In a large proportion of the words encountered in print beginning in the intermediate school years, however, the balance tilts most often toward consistent representation of meaning–"visual identity of word parts takes precedence over letter-sound simplicity" (Venezky, p. 197). Spellings that appear to be anomalous at the level of spelling to-sound correspondences are usually logical when considered from the perspective of spelling-to-meaning correspondences in which the spelling visually retains the meaning relationships among words–crumb has a silent b to preserve its visualidentity with crumble, in which the b is pronounced; the second syllable in mental is spelled -al rather than -le,-el, or -ile in order to retain its identity with the related word mentality, in which the spelling of the second syllable is clear and unambiguous; and autumn is spelled with a final silent n to preserve its visual identity with autumnal, in which the n is pronounced. "Words that are related in meaning are often related in spelling as well, despite changes in sound" (Templeton, p. 194).
If you are interested about more details please follow this link
http://education.stateuniversity.com/pages/2441/Spelling-Teaching.html

Jukka said...

I really love Velvet underground and Mayakovski.

Mariana Soffer said...

Jukka
Interesting choices for this post, two great artists, well one is a group.

I love maya... to

Your thoughts,

dreaming on a softened brain,
like an over-fed lackey on a greasy settee,
with my heart's bloody tatters I'll mock again;
impudent and caustic, I'll jeer to superfluity.

Of Grandfatherly gentleness I'm devoid,
there's not a single grey hair in my soul!
Thundering the world with the might of my voice,
I go by – handsome,
twenty-two-year-old.


And the velvet what can I say, they are awesome, I grew up listening to them. And when they split I was astonished with the cds berlin and the first one that lou read made (with a little help from bowie at start).

Words here are to lame.

Thanks for the sharing friend

/t. said...

this
metaphors post
is pretty deep, mariana

i dug it

well,
enough puns

× × ×

/t.

Mariana Soffer said...

t

was this meant for this post, or the other one indeed? if it was for this thanks a lot and thanks to you for making helping making it.

/t. said...

oh,
sorry,
this comment
was for the post above

i guess i overshot the mark :)

× × ×

/t.

Mariana Soffer said...

t:
do not worry I am posting it so people do not loose it, thanks!

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